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	<title>Comments on: About the Kids</title>
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	<link>http://www.poorwayfaringman.net/blog/archives/710/about-the-kids</link>
	<description>Camping at the periphery of Mormonism</description>
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		<title>By: Poor Wayfaring Man</title>
		<link>http://www.poorwayfaringman.net/blog/archives/710/about-the-kids/comment-page-1#comment-412</link>
		<dc:creator>Poor Wayfaring Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 04:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poorwayfaringman.net/blog/?p=710#comment-412</guid>
		<description>GoingApostate,

I checked out your blog to try and understand a little more where you are coming from.  Interesting story.  I see that you converted and joined the LDS Church a little more than a decade ago, and you are in the throes of a collapse of your belief in not only the myths and legends of Mormonism, but the very concept of &quot;God&quot; itself.  That&#039;s a tough set of issues to work through all by themselves.  Add to that the sticky social web of Mormonism, and your family situation, with a believing spouse who is not sympathetic to your point of view (yet), and you have the makings of a good old fashioned personal shit storm.  It is not likely to get better before it gets worse, but I&#039;ve seen people get through it.  I&#039;m getting through it.

Obviously, I don&#039;t see the kids spending two hours a week in primary as a damaging influence on their self concept or worldview.  I just don&#039;t think their brains are developed enough to internalize the messages you, as an adult, are concerned about. Their reaction to seeing through religious myths is likely to be similar to their reaction to seeing through the Santa Claus myth.  You&#039;ve seen your kids experience the Santa Claus thing recently. It&#039;s not a big deal.

You wrote:
&quot;After seeing how entrenched in the belief my wife is I can only conclude that this childhood conditioning is extremely powerful.&quot;

I don&#039;t think this is the only conclusion you can reach. At the age of 12, your wife started the LDS Young Women&#039;s program, and that, in my opinion, is where things change for the kids.  At that age, they are approaching adulthood, and starting to formulate their adult identity and a comprehensive view of how the world works.  They are allowed to shed their childhood concept of Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, but not God.  The Church uses this time to separate the sexes and attach specially tailored religious strings to the normative concepts (like gender roles, etc.) they were raised with.  This is where guilt becomes a tool for the Church.  In my experience, this is the period during which a kid&#039;s belief in the Church becomes entrenched, and a matter of identity--potentially for the rest of their lives. 

In my opinion, you have time to negotiate this change in your point of view with your wife without bringing the kids into it too much.  Best of luck.

-PWM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GoingApostate,</p>
<p>I checked out your blog to try and understand a little more where you are coming from.  Interesting story.  I see that you converted and joined the LDS Church a little more than a decade ago, and you are in the throes of a collapse of your belief in not only the myths and legends of Mormonism, but the very concept of &#8220;God&#8221; itself.  That&#8217;s a tough set of issues to work through all by themselves.  Add to that the sticky social web of Mormonism, and your family situation, with a believing spouse who is not sympathetic to your point of view (yet), and you have the makings of a good old fashioned personal shit storm.  It is not likely to get better before it gets worse, but I&#8217;ve seen people get through it.  I&#8217;m getting through it.</p>
<p>Obviously, I don&#8217;t see the kids spending two hours a week in primary as a damaging influence on their self concept or worldview.  I just don&#8217;t think their brains are developed enough to internalize the messages you, as an adult, are concerned about. Their reaction to seeing through religious myths is likely to be similar to their reaction to seeing through the Santa Claus myth.  You&#8217;ve seen your kids experience the Santa Claus thing recently. It&#8217;s not a big deal.</p>
<p>You wrote:<br />
&#8220;After seeing how entrenched in the belief my wife is I can only conclude that this childhood conditioning is extremely powerful.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think this is the only conclusion you can reach. At the age of 12, your wife started the LDS Young Women&#8217;s program, and that, in my opinion, is where things change for the kids.  At that age, they are approaching adulthood, and starting to formulate their adult identity and a comprehensive view of how the world works.  They are allowed to shed their childhood concept of Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, but not God.  The Church uses this time to separate the sexes and attach specially tailored religious strings to the normative concepts (like gender roles, etc.) they were raised with.  This is where guilt becomes a tool for the Church.  In my experience, this is the period during which a kid&#8217;s belief in the Church becomes entrenched, and a matter of identity&#8211;potentially for the rest of their lives. </p>
<p>In my opinion, you have time to negotiate this change in your point of view with your wife without bringing the kids into it too much.  Best of luck.</p>
<p>-PWM</p>
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		<title>By: GoingApostate</title>
		<link>http://www.poorwayfaringman.net/blog/archives/710/about-the-kids/comment-page-1#comment-410</link>
		<dc:creator>GoingApostate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poorwayfaringman.net/blog/?p=710#comment-410</guid>
		<description>My wife and I will soon be faced with defining how we will approach the teaching of the kids as well (same ages). Perhaps I&#039;m overreacting but I have serious concerns about what my children will be learning along with those values. After seeing how entrenched in the belief my wife is I can only conclude that this childhood conditioning is extremely powerful. Also I take issue with HOW they learn the lessons. The inseparability of those values from the source of all good, God, makes it very hard to allow for those values to have an inherent good. My children are not taught they have value, they are taught they have value and purpose BECAUSE they are children of God. I see this as a damaging influence but I have no idea how to protect them without tearing the family apart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My wife and I will soon be faced with defining how we will approach the teaching of the kids as well (same ages). Perhaps I&#8217;m overreacting but I have serious concerns about what my children will be learning along with those values. After seeing how entrenched in the belief my wife is I can only conclude that this childhood conditioning is extremely powerful. Also I take issue with HOW they learn the lessons. The inseparability of those values from the source of all good, God, makes it very hard to allow for those values to have an inherent good. My children are not taught they have value, they are taught they have value and purpose BECAUSE they are children of God. I see this as a damaging influence but I have no idea how to protect them without tearing the family apart.</p>
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		<title>By: Poor Wayfaring Man</title>
		<link>http://www.poorwayfaringman.net/blog/archives/710/about-the-kids/comment-page-1#comment-325</link>
		<dc:creator>Poor Wayfaring Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 06:41:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.poorwayfaringman.net/blog/?p=710#comment-325</guid>
		<description>Yeah, that LDS children&#039;s song is obnoxious.  At the same time, I assume that you would acknowledge that kids regularly shrug off songs like &quot;Santa Claus is Coming to Town&quot; when they are allowed to grow out of that myth.  How is the message of &quot;Follow the Prophet&quot; any different?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, that LDS children&#8217;s song is obnoxious.  At the same time, I assume that you would acknowledge that kids regularly shrug off songs like &#8220;Santa Claus is Coming to Town&#8221; when they are allowed to grow out of that myth.  How is the message of &#8220;Follow the Prophet&#8221; any different?</p>
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		<title>By: ed42</title>
		<link>http://www.poorwayfaringman.net/blog/archives/710/about-the-kids/comment-page-1#comment-324</link>
		<dc:creator>ed42</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 06:24:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Please don&#039;t discount the &#039;conditioning&#039; they are receiving in Primary now.  &quot;Follow the prophet, he knows the way&quot; is a very powerful implant, especially as it is sung often.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please don&#8217;t discount the &#8216;conditioning&#8217; they are receiving in Primary now.  &#8220;Follow the prophet, he knows the way&#8221; is a very powerful implant, especially as it is sung often.</p>
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